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XOOPS: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Posted by: XoopsCouncilOn 2007/11/19 22:26:45 17024 reads

MediaWiki module has been installed on www.xoops.org to be the start of XOOPS Project's Documentation Section.

The documentation section shall mainly cover:

* Getting Started
* Installation Guide
* Operation Guide
* XOOPS Development
* Theme Design Guide
* Module Development Guide
* XOOPS Security
* XOOPS Tips

It will also host documents for XOOPS Project teams and groups in case necessary.

How To Contribute

The XoopsWiki is intended to be a community-driven place to allow people build our documents. You can contribute to the documentation
by:
* Adding and editing Wiki pages
* Helping build a XOOPS Documentation or Wiki Team to maintain the XoopsWiki on a regular base
* Providing useful resources
* Helping people using Wiki

The comments are owned by the author. We aren't responsible for their content.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

McDonald Published 11/19/2007 23:14 Home away from home Joined 08/15/2005 Comments 1072

Is there really any need for another MediaWiki corner?
XOOPS Wiki covers this already.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

nachenko Published 11/19/2007 23:24 Quite a regular Joined 01/18/2005 Comments 356

This wiki should:

1 - Get all the content from xoopswiki.org and give the appropiate tools to keep the work here.

or

2 - simply deactivate the module and support xoopswiki.

The first one has a very big advantage: just one login account for all. The second one has a very big advantage too: it looks ten times better.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

McDonald Published 11/20/2007 0:08 Home away from home Joined 08/15/2005 Comments 1072

I suggest to go for option 2.

People spent a lot of time at XOOPS Wiki already.

Better to add a menu similar to those on xoopsinfo.com here for other supporting websites.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

allnewtome Published 11/20/2007 0:18 Not too shy to talk Joined 11/30/2005 Comments 175

I'd say go for option 1. It makes sense to have everything at the xoops.org website.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

marcan Published 11/20/2007 0:25 Just can't stay away Joined 10/08/2003 Comments 824

Hi guys,

Are there any particular reason why all the good work of the team of xoopswiki.org have been ignored ?

As the XOOPS Council explained to to XoopsWiki team why their have not been used ? Seems here we are wasting some very good resources and energy from very dedicated people...

Perhaps their is something I'm missing ?

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

damaster Published 11/20/2007 0:32 Just can't stay away Joined 05/11/2003 Comments 556

This is a good initiative!

Glad to see a wiki on the project site
and not somewhere else...

XOOPS Cube plan to use sourceforge wiki
for technical stuff that may interest devs

Hope everyone will be free to add content
to this project wiki.

Have Fun !

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

snow77 Published 11/20/2007 0:43 Updated 11/20/2007 0:50 Just can't stay away Joined 07/23/2003 Comments 864

I guess everyone is free to do their own wiki, but under the current circumstances I consider this is one more bad planning of xoops.org , also it demonstrates a total neglect of the community work done at xoopswiki.org , a site which is built with the community in mind and made with the intention of filling in one of xoops's lacks. This shows a clear division in between "XOOPS Project" and "XOOPS Community" caused by the decisions made by the project council.

If the "XOOPS project council" would take in consideration integrating the "Community XOOPS wiki" to the "XOOPS project". And if the root of the problem of not doing this is because users don't have the same login, this could be solved with one of those OPENID solutions mentioned before or something similar. Although conserving the login doesn't seem like an important issue to me, those who are really interested in contributing won't have a problem in spending 30 seconds creating a new account.

It would be more reasonable to understand that this community work can't be integrated because the content it has isn't acceptable for the XOOPS project, explaining the reasons why.

Anyways, if this wiki inside xoops.org is to exist, there are several problems I find in it:

1) The categories:
* XOOPS Development
* Theme Design Guide
* Module Development Guide
* XOOPS Security
* XOOPS Tips

are a duplicate of the categories found in the Core Wiki. What's the point in fragmentating the information like this and just keep the core wiki instead?

2) The categories:
* Getting Started
* Installation Guide
* Operation Guide

are being dealt with very professional standards and team work at xoopswiki.org

3) The wiki installed at xoops.org is outdated by 4 versions, it's running on version 1.7 and the current stable version is 1.11.

Which besides lacking various security patches most very usefull plugins can't be used in this old version.

-----------------------------------------

What XOOPS does need and should be a priority is a wiki for core documentation in the same line of the dev.xoops.org wiki that "once existed" at xoops. Where core technical documentation exists in a central place. If this wiki could be for this and start by restoring the information lost at dev.xoops.org wiki , I think it's great idea.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

sailjapan Published 11/20/2007 1:29 Updated 11/20/2007 4:41 Moderator Joined 11/16/2005 Comments 1672

Of course if it's the intention of the project to include a wiki, the most efficient way would either be to invite thehttp://www.xoopswiki.org team to bring their team, content and structure over to x.o. or to redirect to their site directly.

In my opinion, any other way seems at best redundant, at worst bloody minded.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Mamba Published 11/20/2007 1:37 Updated 11/20/2007 1:38 Moderator Joined 04/23/2004 Comments 11366

Quote:

I'd say go for option 1. It makes sense to have everything at the xoops.org website.

I absolutely agree!

Nachenko]: Absolutely Option 1!!!!

Of course, we should utilize as much as possible of the experience and tools that have been developed onhttp://www.xoopswiki.org/

Marcan I totally agree with you that we should utilize the resource and expertise from the www.xoopswiki.org I see it right now as a first step (i.e. to install the module), and now we can define together with the www.xoopswiki.org team the best way to transfer their know-how and expertise to www.xoops.org

Let's not try to expect everything to be done in one weekend. We just updated the server and I'm sure there is more work to be done. But let's look into this movement positively - this is way more that has been done in a long time.

snow77: let's work together with the Council to improve the work that they've done so far. I like your constructive and detailed feedback, and I hope, your points will be addressed. Again, as I've mentioned to Marcan, let's not expect everything to be done in one weekend. I'm sure that DJ and the Council will listen to you and will try to improve things as we go.

But in order to do so, let's show some encouragement and not only criticism.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

tom Published 11/20/2007 2:45 Friend of XOOPS Joined 09/21/2002 Comments 1359

Quote:

2 - simply deactivate the module and support xoopswiki.

That would be my option, then when some idiot leaves it till last minute to notify the community that the main site is going to be down, at least docs and support is still available.

So if it's all on one site, then when it closes for what ever reason, we won't have direct access to the information which is important.

It also seems a too little, too late, we already have a good solid site with regular contributors, why throw that away?

All the eggs in one basket?

Go Team DJ huh! Another example of not acting until till late, then ignoring whilst walking all over the people that actually care about the project.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

skenow Published 11/20/2007 3:16 Home away from home Joined 11/17/2004 Comments 993

If this is truly 'project' documentation, it will bear little resemblance to the content of XOOPSwiki. The wiki at sourceforge is best suited for this purpose.

Efforts may be better spent on activities that unite the community rather than create confusion.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

BlueStocking Published 11/20/2007 3:19 Updated 11/20/2007 3:37 Home away from home Joined 02/16/2007 Comments 1191

FYI:
How To Contribute

The XoopsWiki is intended to be a community-driven place to allow people build our documents. You can contribute to the documentation
by:
* Adding and editing Wiki pages
* Helping build a XOOPS Documentation or Wiki Team to maintain the XoopsWiki on a regular base
* Providing useful resources
* Helping people using Wiki

____________
Every bit of the above appeals to me... where can I sign up???

My resume... Operation Manual

When you get to Template Sets
please note the work already done.

...darcy

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

irmtfan Published 11/20/2007 4:46 Module Developer Joined 12/07/2003 Comments 3419

while i agree with most of your comments, this wiki is not to disregard all works in the xoopswiki.org
we should consider possible integration of all documentations in xoopswiki, d.x.o and ...

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Mamba Published 11/20/2007 5:57 Moderator Joined 04/23/2004 Comments 11366

Quote:

That would be my option, then when some idiot leaves it till last minute to notify the community that the main site is going to be down, at least docs and support is still available.

Tom,

you know better than anyone else that name calling is NOT appreciate it here. You don't have agree with everything, but at least refrain from name calling.

It's kind of sad to see people jumping all over DJ now, when I didn't see that being done with Skalpa and others who were in charge previously, when nothing or close to nothing was done.

Come on, Tom, stop being so negative and confrontational! You don't agree with something or somebody, that's OK. But there is no reason for name calling!

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Marco Published 11/20/2007 6:51 Home away from home Joined 03/15/2004 Comments 1256

Yet another community oriented initiative !
great !
it's one major initiative for xoops.org after ages of inaction and organized blocked situation.
well done !
marco

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

debianus Published 11/20/2007 9:11 Not too shy to talk Joined 12/17/2006 Comments 179

irmtfan wrote_:Quote:

while i agree with most of your comments, this wiki is not to disregard all works in the xoopswiki.org

Well; becouse this project has a "wonderful" documentation, now we will have two sites. Two times the same work. If you want to create confusion, you have obtained it.
Quote:

we should consider possible integration of all documentations in xoopswiki, d.x.o and ...

I believe that:
1.- you would have to think it before open the wiki here.
2.- You must wait after the results of Team Proposal.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

nachenko Published 11/20/2007 9:45 Quite a regular Joined 01/18/2005 Comments 356

Haha, Debianus, I noticed some of my stuff in the wiki has been translated to spanish.

Another two big advantages of xoopswiki.org:

1 - It's multilingual. I don't mind having everything just in english, but it's good anyway.

2 - It does not depend on x.o, so any problem on one site will have no effect on the other.

The big problem is the login. It should be an Openid or so, to avoid registering on every XOOPS site.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

irmtfan Published 11/20/2007 10:12 Module Developer Joined 12/07/2003 Comments 3419

Debianus,
i agree with you. but we should start from one point to gather greater community in One Place. there should be a wiki in xoops.org with its great community sooner or later.
i state it in the previous news. The deep intention to create a new wiki is integrate all documentations.

also i agree with snow77:
technically, this mediawiki is too old and have some weaknesses. security issues, parserfunctions like #if not supported and ... ( it all has been discussed in the council)

and nachenko:
Quote:

2 - It does not depend on x.o, so any problem on one site will have no effect on the other.

this is a reason to have sub sites like wiki.xoops.org

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

BlueStocking Published 11/20/2007 10:57 Home away from home Joined 02/16/2007 Comments 1191

Debianus,

As you so recently saw, the wiki work I do and the work xoopswiki does is different, by a long shot. I like and need a wiki that can be worked on and is a continuing resource, not a static document. Take the templates for instance that I created... I am eager to get them over here where others can add to the work.

I think other peoples work is good and very much valued, and if given an opportunity I believe mine will be also.

Xoops.org may afford me that opportunity now...
I surly hope so.

I am interested in CORE documentation, not new templates and modules but the things the old dev.xoops.org had in their archives, collecting dust and being discarded as if they had no value today.

I want to see those document restored and bought up to date.

I believe that is the stated purpose of this wiki.

I believe I am up to the job.

...darcy

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

tom Published 11/20/2007 12:56 Friend of XOOPS Joined 09/21/2002 Comments 1359

Quote:

It's kind of sad to see people jumping all over DJ now, when I didn't see that being done with Skalpa and others who were in charge previously, when nothing or close to nothing was done.

The difference is that Skalpa didn't disrespect me, DJ treated me like crap he asked me to do a fair bit of stuff, then ignored everything I did, he cast me aside without even telling me I was no longer needed.

And I'm not alone, so sorry if my attitude towards a dictator is not to your liking, however as I've told DJ, once I receive a public apology for the way he treat me, then I'll be happy.

It takes few words, in fact only two "I'm Sorry", when I hear this I'll be happy.

There's a lot more to this which can be seen under my account, I think I documented it pretty well.

I agree with what your saying though, even though he is an idiot, I shall try and refrain from future names, even when true.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Catzwolf Published 11/20/2007 13:33 Home away from home Joined 09/30/2007 Comments 1392

Actually I have to disagree, many people who have offered their services in this area and were shunned should actually feel rather disapponited that their work and services were pushed to the side.

Actualy, to be quite honest, this is all really becoming quite a bit of a joke. I think I may not be the only one to think this, but I was expecting a lot more than this after the weekend.

But I kinda feel we are going backwards and not forwards now. I do remember that XOOPS did have a wiki that was rememoved because it was not maintained, full of #OOPS# and spam. Oh itr was also considered a security risk, and here we are back with another one.

No new theme? Actually nothing really new here at all.

Why don't you people wise up and give the people what they have been asking and not what you actually think they may like.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

nachenko Published 11/20/2007 15:02 Quite a regular Joined 01/18/2005 Comments 356

Oh, here it comes again. The arguments, the discussion, the dissapointments.

But this time, I have to go on with the discussion.

I'm not dissapointed because i did not expect anything special, just a code and server upgrade. No new skin, no new theme.

I don't know what's the problem with the theme, but i'll discuss it later.

What I want to talk about is the new wiki.

Sorry, but WE DON'T NEED TWO WIKIS. I've read all this about this one is different because it's about the core and blabla... sorry again, but this is no argument. The mother of all wikis, the big fat one, the Wikipedia, has MILLIONS of entries, millions. Anybody see a problem on that? Anybody had a problem reading from the wikipedia? Anybody feels Wikipedia is a mess?

So why on hell do we have two?

The community has spoken via it's actions, populating XOOPS Wiki.

Now we have XOOPS docs, a project so succesful that has 1 (one) document), a site I'm not sure we need (what's wrong with the wiki?). And now a third wiki?

Am I the only one surprised? I visit this site EVERYDAY, it should have not surpised me.

Now, for the theme. There are some good proposals for the new theme. Let the candidates upload their stuff, then activate theme selector block for registered users. Open a poll in the forum.

This is all is needed to have a new theme.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Mamba Published 11/20/2007 15:48 Moderator Joined 04/23/2004 Comments 11366

Quote:

The difference is that Skalpa didn't disrespect me, DJ treated me like crap he asked me to do a fair bit of stuff, then ignored everything I did, he cast me aside without even telling me I was no longer needed.

And I'm not alone, so sorry if my attitude towards a dictator is not to your liking, however as I've told DJ, once I receive a public apology for the way he treat me, then I'll be happy.

It takes few words, in fact only two "I'm Sorry", when I hear this I'll be happy.

Tom,

there two different issues. One, is your disappointment with DJ. I don't know the details, so I can't judge. Maybe there were wrong expectations on your side, maybe DJ needs to improve his communication and leadership skills.

Two, is calling people names. Regardless of how much you're disappointed, there is no excuse for doing it. Period!

The rules are pretty simple - you want to do it, please take it to personal email, and don't do it here on the forums. It's not helping you, and most importantly, it's not helping XOOPS!

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

BlueStocking Published 11/20/2007 17:13 Updated 11/20/2007 23:15 Home away from home Joined 02/16/2007 Comments 1191

Poster: nachenko Posted: 2007/11/20 9:02:56

I do not mean any disrespect to anybody, but please look at the xoopswiki.org "all pages". I have submitted at least 90 pages that have been stopped progress on because it conflicted with what someone else was doing. I don't even know what it is they are doing. I am not allowed in the wiki work forums. I have been told the format isn't right and they have discussed it and my work is not acceptable there. They don't even allow me to edit my work to make it acceptable.

The operations manual and the companion glossary.
SEE: All Pages

NOW, I am glad to see this wiki.

And it IS NEEDED.
IF you want COMMUNITY involvement,
PERIOD, that is all there is to it!

There are those who consider the "community" to be a select few, but it is more than that... It is all of us.

Many of us who choose not to belong to a 'team' also would like to be able to contribute something meaningful to xoops.

...darcy

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

BlueStocking Published 11/20/2007 21:16 Home away from home Joined 02/16/2007 Comments 1191

Catzwolf,
I have asked for a place to put 90 pages that are not acceptable to xoopswiki.org.

Finally, I have it.

I first started this project about a year ago, the wiki I maintain, (spam free) is not visible in China due to my server, I maintain it on a daily basis, and I would just as soon be working here IF I can be allowed to.

This is where it belongs.

...darcy

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Lance_ Published 11/21/2007 0:35 Home away from home Joined 01/12/2004 Comments 983

Quote:

Poster: catzwolf_ Posted: 2007/11/20 8:33:29
Actually nothing really new here at all.

Sure there is new, slowly moving to modules built by DJ.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

tom Published 11/21/2007 16:44 Friend of XOOPS Joined 09/21/2002 Comments 1359

Quote:

The rules are pretty simple - you want to do it, please take it to personal email, and don't do it here on the forums. It's not helping you, and most importantly, it's not helping XOOPS!

Yes your right even though disappointed is an understatement, Just sometimes when people treated you like s***, it makes you want to scream and you don't always think straight.

Quote:

Sure there is new, slowly moving to modules built by DJ.

DJ never built all his modules, a company did and released them through his name, as he posted on SourceForge, I'm actually not even sure if he coded any of them he originally claimed to, I'm sure he will point out which ones he did.

In all honesty I'm not sure what is DJ's work, I know a commercial company were supposed to be coding XOOPS 3.0 core for him.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

Mamba Published 11/21/2007 22:39 Updated 11/21/2007 22:45 Moderator Joined 04/23/2004 Comments 11366

Quote:

Yes your right even though disappointed is an understatement, Just sometimes when people treated you like s***, it makes you want to scream and you don't always think straight.

Trust me, I know the feeling, but it makes us better people if we can overcome it!

Quote:

In all honesty I'm not sure what is DJ's work, I know a commercial company were supposed to be coding XOOPS 3.0 core for him.

They were doing it not for "him", but for themselves, and we as XOOPS could utilize it, if we want it (since it would be released as OpenSource) - (For more info, read here....)

You make it sound so negative, and I don't see any problem with it, as long as we as a community have a say in whether we'll utilize it or not.

This is nothing different than utilizing parts or everything developed by XOOPS Brazil/Mexico, XOOPS Cube, or any other XOOPS fork done by other people and released as OpenSource.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

vaughan Published 11/22/2007 17:18 Friend of XOOPS Joined 11/26/2005 Comments 680

community orientated, maybe.

but community appreciation, not in this lifetime.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

vaughan Published 11/22/2007 18:32 Friend of XOOPS Joined 11/26/2005 Comments 680

Quote:

They were doing it not for "him", but for themselves, and we as XOOPS could utilize it

exactly! for themselves. which means they design for what they need it to do.

but what the community here wants is probably not the same features or ideas..

when their version is passed to us so that our devs can utilize it, do you think that it will be handed to us with absolutely no need of extra work to be done on the code? so where's the sense in that?

if they want to work on it, then they should utilise our project services which means they actively particpate on SF.net in both the core discussions & with CVS/SVN commits aswell, so that other devs can regularlky see what's being worked on.

and i don't know about you.

but my vision for XOOPS 3 would be a fully *object orientated* OO system, with none of the bloated code & where all modules can share and utilise the XOOPS core classes and objects only when they are needed. that means no DB queries if they aren't necessary.

module devs should not have to write classes (unless they are specialised classes for that module) why should a module dev need to have an uploader class, and other classes that other modules use & the core etc. they should all be able to use the XOOPS core class itself. but as it stands the XOOPS core classes aren't good enough for todays modules & developments.

we need to put the OO back in TyPhoo..

oops i mean XOOPS not Typhoo.

Re: XOOPS Project Documentation Section started

BlueStocking Published 11/24/2007 4:47 Home away from home Joined 02/16/2007 Comments 1191

nachenko,

Another alternative could be to leave xoopswiki.org content at xoopswiki.org and supply the appropiate tools to keep the wiki work done here .... HERE.

AND

SUPPORT xoopswiki.org in the work they are doing there.

By support, I mean recognize the value of the hard work done and the very good looks of the site.

Then let time heal the old wounds while allowing XOOPS to slowly evolve into the single unit it should be, even if the physical servers are located -- even in different countries.

This is a community responsibility...
We owe it to ourselves.

BlueStocking

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